Innovations for Successful Societies AN INITIATIVE OF THE WOODROW WILSON SCHOOL OF PUBLIC AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND THE BOBST CENTER FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE Series: Policing Interview no.: L1 Interviewee: Shantnu Chandrawat Interviewer: Arthur Boutellis Date of Interview: 23 July 2008 Location: Mitrovica Regional Headquarters Kosovo Innovations for Successful Societies, Bobst Center for Peace and Justice Princeton University, 83 Prospect Avenue, Princeton, New Jersey, 08544, USA www.princeton.edu/successfulsocieties BOUTELLIS: Today is the 23rd of July 2008 and I am now sitting with Shantnu Chandrawat, who is the Deputy Regional Commander of the UNMIK (United Nations Mission In Kosovo) police in Mitrovica, and currently Acting Regional Commander for the Region of Mitrovica. CHANDRAWAT: That's correct. BOUTELLIS: First, thank you for your time. I forgot to mention we are sitting in Mitrovica Headquarters in Kosovo. Before we start the interview, I'd like you to please confirm that you've given your consent. CHANDRAWAT: I've given my consent. BOUTELLIS: Great. I'd like to start by asking you a bit more about your personal background. If you could, give us a quick overview of your career and how you got involved in overseas policing work. CHANDRAWAT: I joined the police in 1990 as a station commander, and I was a sub-inspector in the Rajasthan State Police in India. After serving as station commander for various stations, I was promoted to Deputy Superintendent of Police in 1997. I was promoted last month to Additional Superintendent of Police. So, this is my 18th year in policing, in the state police. I've been a station commander and also a subdivision police officer. This is my second mission in Kosovo. The first mission was in 2001-2002 and I was a station commander of the Vitina/?????? station in Gjilani/Gnjilane region. I came on the second mission in November 2007, and for the last two months I've been working as Deputy Regional Commander Operations in Mitrovica region. So this is all, about me. BOUTELLIS: The mission started in '99. You had been here in 2000-2001, and now you're back five years later in 2007. Can you describe your own history of the mission, the objectives, and what were your first impressions in terms of crime, law and order, and the challenges? CHANDRAWAT: In the year 2001, when I was here for the first time, the UNMIK police were doing all executive policing duties. The local police officers were basically under training and under probation. We used to train them and we used to advise them on various issues. We were doing their police duties. In the last six or seven years, the KPS (Kosovo Police Service) police officers have traveled a lot. Now, they are policing independently. I've seen this progress in all fields, especially in investigation and operations, and also on the administration side. They have progressed and they have learned the whole thing. They are doing the whole thing and we are just monitoring. In Mitrovica, for a special reason, the present Commander of Operations and the Regional Commander are still the executive officers, and we have total command and control over the KP, as well as the UNMIK police structure. Regarding the development and the process of the KP police officers, I'm really happy to say that all the training and all the input from international police officers have been fruitful. Now they are in total command and control, and they are doing a good, professional police officer's job. BOUTELLIS: What were some of the challenges? What was the situation of crime and rule of law in general, in 2001-2002, and what was it in comparison to what it is now? What type of crime did you see? CHANDRAWAT: At the start of the mission, the pattern of crime was related to the ethnic threat and crime between the two communities. But over a period of six to seven years, I have seen an increase in the crime related to narcotics as well as general crime-threats, personal feuds, and also a rise in domestic violence cases. I think the rise in auto theft cases and the increase in narcotics cases are the biggest challenges for the police right now. BOUTELLIS: Now specifically, since you've been back in 2007, you're in the Mitrovica region. You mentioned it is the only regional command that has not been transitioned to Kosovo police. CHANDRAWAT: Yes, it is the only regional command that has not been transitioned because of the special status of north Mitrovica and south Mitrovica. We have a very large Serbian population living in north Mitrovica, which is still demonstrating and protesting against the UDI, the Unilateral Declaration of Independence by the Kosovo Parliament. So, this is the only region in Kosovo that has not been transitioned. BOUTELLIS: Where are the types of crime different in the rest of the region? Or, do you see very much the same trends? CHANDRAWAT: Well, the pattern of the crime is almost the same, but because of the special concerns related to north Mitrovica-because the border is very porous between the Republic of Serbia and north Mitrovica-we have a lot of smuggling cases related to fuel, and also a lot of smuggling cases related to narcotics and auto thefts. We are trying to take control of this situation. We have been able to put a hold on the increasing fuel smuggling and also narcotics. One more important crime scenario is the possession of illegal weapons in this particular region of Kosovo. So, we are also working on this right now. BOUTELLIS: You've been here in the last year, so you've gone through the Unilateral Declaration of Independence, as you mentioned, in March. Later there was a new Constitution, a new police law, in June of 2008. Can you walk us through some of the changes on the ground related to-? CHANDRAWAT: The changes on the ground are very significant because after the UDI, and especially after the Constitution of Kosovo was implemented with the Parliament, the local KP officers from the north side-they are now working through the chain of command of UNMIK police officers stationed as monitors in all four stations on the north side. Also, there has been obstruction in the regular flow-. BOUTELLIS: Just to clarify, they were already under KP regional command? CHANDRAWAT: Before also, they were under-. BOUTELLIS: They had been transitioned? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, they had been transitioned totally. We had a lot of KPS Serb command staff in the regional headquarters, but after this particular UDI, we had shifted the command staff of the KPS officers to the north station for administration and operational reasons. Now, the UNMIKP is the link between both sides. For the last two months there has been very positive, significant increase in the flow of communications between both sides. Also, the sharing of information and the sharing of logistical supplies just like uniforms, articles and other things has increased. The coordination to catch criminals has increased and the police officers on both sides are working as professional police officers. I can see maybe in the next three, four, five months we will have the same structure. We will have the same police operations going on as before the UDI. So, there have been some very positive, significant developments over the last two months. BOUTELLIS: In terms of numbers, how many KP officers are there in the northern part of Mitrovica and in the southern part of Mitrovica? CHANDRAWAT: Overall, we have about 950 KP officers in the Mitrovica region. About 270 officers are on the north side, and the rest of them, about 700 on the south side of Mitrovica. We have a colonel who is in charge; he is the Deputy Commander for the KP officers in Mitrovica. They're the command staff also. BOUTELLIS: How does the work of the police-now it is training but it also major mentoring-relate to other activities of the UN mission here? Particularly, how does it address this sector? CHANDRAWAT: Basically as the police works, we register the case after getting the complaint. We register the case, and then we investigate, and also advise by the opinion of the public prosecutor. Then we make the arrest and put both the case and the criminal in front of the courts. The court decides the punishment and other issues. But because of the UDI for the courts, what we have in existence on the north side of Mitrovica has not been working. So, there has been an accumulation of many important cases because of the lack of court system in north Mitrovica. We had to shift a lot of cases to the Vushtrri/Vu?itrn court, which is taking care of most of the cases right now. There is an accumulation of almost 1800 cases, which are still with us because of the non-functional court system in the north. BOUTELLIS: That's since the UDI? CHANDRAWAT: Since the UDI. Earlier, the punishments and the disposal of the cases was very fast and was very good. It was sending the right signal to society that if they commit a crime, they will definitely be punished. I must appreciate the professional competency of the KP officers because I have seen KP officers in the field, and they are very good investigators. They are very quick on the arrest and in handling the cases. BOUTELLIS: Can you describe what the daily routine is like, if there is such a thing for you? What is a normal day like? CHANDRAWAT: Basically, we work in three shifts. We work from 8 to 4, and that is the morning shift. From 4 to 12 is the evening shift, and from 12 to 8 in the morning is the night shift. This is for the patrols and investigations. For operations, we work in the general shift, which is 8:30 to 5, but we are always on call. If something important or an incident happens, we rush to the scene of the crime, or the scene of the incident. Then, we are working 24/7 until the case is resolved. BOUTELLIS: So, an important dimension of policing is situation awareness and effective gathering of intelligence? CHANDRAWAT: Yes. BOUTELLIS: How does this function? CHANDRAWAT: We also have a regular intelligence office, and we have a lot of intelligence officers who are working in plain clothes and also in uniform. They have their own sources of information. BOUTELLIS: These are both internationals and-? CHANDRAWAT: No, with the local KP. We have intelligence monitors who are working on intelligence gathering operations. We also have a system of attending the various social meetings, various meetings in the municipality, various meetings with the administrator, and also other meetings. We derive the public pulse out of those meetings by reports and by analysis of the reports, as well as by the officers who are attending the meetings. The intelligence officers are also visiting various areas to get a good perception of the grievances and the social activities. Then on the basis of this, we present this intelligence to the respective units, which can deal with the information given by the intelligence. We have a good system of intelligence reports on a daily basis, and the system has its own way of disseminating the information to the respective units so that they have very good, first-hand information. BOUTELLIS: Under Resolution 1244 the UN has executive mandate still to date? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, of course. BOUTELLIS: However, the KP officers seem to be doing policing work every day. How is the sharing of responsibility and how has the transition taken place? CHANDRAWAT: All the police stations of Kosovo have been completely transitioned. So, all of the executive, operational and investigation work is done by the KP officers. But we have two or three monitors, international police officers, who are monitoring the middle-level management of the police stations and the high-level management of the police stations. That is, the operations and the station commander's office. Only three conditions are there in which we can overrule them. Those are to protect human rights, to stop any violation of any PPM--that is the Policy and Procedures Manual--and violation of any law, and also to protect a human life. So, if an international police officer is a witness to any condition that clearly violates one of three conditions, we can step in and we can take the policing in our own hands. Otherwise, we have a system called KMIS, which is Kosovo Monitoring Information System, through which we send out monitoring reports to the Kosovo Police headquarters regarding the progress, development, and activities performed by the KP officers in the field. This system is really good. It gives good input about the development that has been achieved by the police officers who have been monitored. BOUTELLIS: The monitors fill out the reports and turn them in through KMIS on a regular basis? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, to KMIS on a regular basis. We have an oversight and monitoring department, and headquarters regularly analyzes these KMIS reports. Then, they advise and give the opinion regarding any training needs for the KP officers. BOUTELLIS: Do you know the KMIS-where it comes from? How it has been developed? CHANDRAWAT: It has been developed by the UN. I think for the last three or four years it has been operational. It has different types of reports. One is the procedural report. One is the Calls for Service, and there are also operational reports. If in a situation, the international monitor observes that the KP officer is not doing the job properly or appropriately, he can advise the KP officer. If his advice or opinion has been rejected by the KP officer or has not been obeyed or done accordingly by the KP officer, he can file a noncompliance report, which has to be--there is a system to dispose of this noncompliance report within 60 days. The solution is to advise and to give the training to the KP officer. If he corrects himself, then we dispose of it without any problems. BOUTELLIS: I'd like now to move into different areas of building police reform. If you don't have any particular comments or practical experience here in Kosovo we'll just skip to the next one. The first one is recruitment. Do you have any comments-you haven't been involved directly in recruitment, but you've seen the recruits coming. CHANDRAWAT: In the last mission I was involved in the field training, called the FT, as a field-training officer. The KP officers were recruited by the recruitment branch. After initial training for four months at the police academy in Vushtrri/Vu?itrn, they were then sent to different police stations. International police officers were assigned as FTOs, which means field-training officers. The task of the FTO was to train the under-training of the KP officer, in all the fields. There was a report in the front to be filled and subsequent analysis that the under-training officer had achieved, and what he should have achieved after the field training. BOUTELLIS: The new recruits, the Kosovo Police Service back then, everybody was recruited at the start level? CHANDRAWAT: Yes. BOUTELLIS: They were undergoing six months of training in the academy? CHANDRAWAT: Between four to six months of training in the academy in Vushtrri/Vu?itrn. Then, they were assigned to the police stations for field training. BOUTELLIS: How long would the field training last? CHANDRAWAT: It was again a program for anything between two to four months. I don't remember exactly because it was in 2001-2002. But it was between two to four months. The police officer was sent for two weeks, for three weeks period for different FTOs so that they could learn investigation methods; they could learn the operational methods and also how to patrol, and for the community policing also. So they were assigned to different units for a limited period of time and then they were assessed, how they progressed and if they achieved their training targets. BOUTELLIS: Can you describe how the field training was taking place? Did you have a curriculum? How were the targets set, etc.? CHANDRAWAT: Yes. We had a syllabus given to us-these are the training objectives, and these are the things to be taught to the recruit. We used to take the local KP officers to the field. And whenever we used to go for operations and investigations or community police visits, we used to take the KP officer with us and give in-the-field training to observe. So, there is a syllabus and curriculum, which was made available to each and every FTO to be followed. BOUTELLIS: In terms of the benchmarks-what were the benchmarks, or the targets that were set to determine that a KPS officer was ready? CHANDRAWAT: At the end of the assigned period, the FTO has to give the final assessment regarding the level of training achieved by the recruitment officer. If he fails that, the training officer feels he is still lacking something. Then, he is to advise the station commander that this KP officer should be given more training in this particular field. The FTO system is a very good system. BOUTELLIS: As a field training officer, how many KPS officers did you have to follow? CHANDRAWAT: I had four KPS officers; I trained them as FTO in the Vitina/?????? Station, in Gjilani/Gnjilane region. BOUTELLIS: In your opinion, what were some of the major achievements in terms of the training, or maybe some of the good things that you remember? CHANDRAWAT: I think the competencies of the KPS officers, especially in the field of investigation, and the production of the crime scene and lifting forensic evidence from the crime scene. Also, dealing with law and order situations in protests and demonstrations has been a significant process; progress has been made by the KPS officers. BOUTELLIS: Riot control? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, riot control. BOUTELLIS: These are specialized-? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, specialized police duties. Also, I think the community police concept is also very good because the police officers go to different villages, to different localities, and get a good idea of the local problems. Then, they can contact the different departments and the organizations, which are basically related to those particular subjects and we facilitate the solution to the problems, which are not related to the police but to different organizations and different departments. But this is a very positive facet of the police structure. BOUTELLIS: That's the community policing? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, community policing. BOUTELLIS: Are there any forums for the exchange of information with the community? What are the channels of communication? CHANDRAWAT: They have their own report forms to be filled if they're visiting a community, or a locality. They are filled out after the visit. They fill out the officer report form and they mention that this has been discovered or found by the police officer and these are the steps to be taken at his level, and these are the steps to be taken at different levels of the police command structure. BOUTELLIS: One of the issues with the former police-the police before '99 -was an aggressive police. How were the police force perceived in 2001-2002 when it was in the making, when it was really the international police doing the work, and now? Have you seen changes in terms of public perception? CHANDRAWAT: I don't know much about the pre-1999 police setup, but I've seen the people being more friendly, more frank. They don't hesitate to come to the police regarding their own complaints, and to the international police officer, but because of the language problems and because of the economic situation in 2001 and 2002-now I've seen because of the progress made in each and every field in Kosovo. All the people also know in Kosovo that their own officers, their local police officers, are doing their duties. I think that there has been a frankness and freedom for the people to come to the police station regarding each and every matter. They have been quite open to approach the police for their problem solving. BOUTELLIS: In the so-called Serb-Kosovar enclaves and in the northern part of Mitrovica, can you describe the situation there? Are KP officers Serbian-ethnicity, or have there been mixed patrols? CHANDRAWAT: We had a lot of enclaves in the Mitrovica region itself. One of the biggest enclaves is Prilu?je. Prilu?je is an enclave with an almost 3000 K-Serb population. It is in Vushtrri/Vu?itrn station. If you go to that particular place, you will find absolute freedom of movement for the K-Serb population. You can see them going to the Albanian shops, you can see them going to the Albanian places and using all sorts of number plates on their cars when moving around. Nobody is going to stop them; nobody is going to harass them. Surprisingly, the maturity shown by the majority towards the K-Albanians has been very good. It has been quite positive. Now, I think they have a sense of responsibility, that the world is watching them. Everybody feels the sense of responsibility is on their shoulders. I think they are behaving very nicely. They have been quite accommodative to the presence of the minority population within themselves. So, regarding the police setup in the enclaves they have a mixed police substation in Prilu?je, where the K-Serb police officers are working with the K-Albanian police officers. They have mixed patrols in Prilu?je and mixed patrols in Skenderaj/Srbica, and they have mixed patrols even in the north part of Mitrovica. The Albanian police officers are also working with the K-Serbians in north Mitrovica, especially in the Suvi Do-Albanian area in north Mitrovica and little Bosnia. There have been no problems. Absolutely, from a professional point of view, the relations are excellent between the K-Albanian police officers and K-Serbian police officers. It is only the politics that is still-. BOUTELLIS: Do you remember approximately when the first patrols-it was prior to 2007-but when approximately the first mixed patrols started taking place? CHANDRAWAT: I still remember in 2001, we used to have mixed patrols with K-Serbian and K-Albanian police officers. Even in 2001. BOUTELLIS: Even in north Mitrovica, they're mixed patrols? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, they have mixed patrols and there are no problems. Absolutely. BOUTELLIS: After the Unilateral Declaration of Independence, has the number of Serbian KP officers-? CHANDRAWAT: Initially, some of the KPS officers resigned their jobs. But almost all of them have come back again. BOUTELLIS: And Mitrovica region? CHANDRAWAT: In Mitrovica and in all of Kosovo, almost all of them have come back and they're doing their police job with great motivation and great-. BOUTELLIS: The main change has been the fact that the regional command of Mitrovica has gone back to international-? CHANDRAWAT: It was always there. BOUTELLIS: It always was, so it has never been transferred. But in terms of the patrol on the ground-? CHANDRAWAT: They are still there. They are still mixed patrols BOUTELLIS: They have mixed patrols. CHANDRAWAT: Yes. BOUTELLIS: Looking at the internal management, do you have any particular comments in terms of the promotion system, disciplinary system, record keeping, etc.? What have been your observations? CHANDRAWAT: As a police officer, I would like to be promoted within a span of six to eight years. I've seen a lot of good police officers in KPS showing their resentment and maybe their concerns regarding their promotion matters. They think they have passed the examination but they have not been promoted because of some other things. I think it is basically misinformation, misconception. I think my advice would be to make the promotion system very transparent so that everybody knows where he or she stands. Regarding the salary issue, I think the salary they're getting is a little bit low. To increase the motivation level there should be some substantial increase in the salaries of the KPS officers. The third thing, is that the logistical supplies and the vehicle situation is also a major concern for each KPS officer. It really hampers their movement and it really acts as a de-motivation because they do not have good vehicles and they do not have good logistical supplies. Sometimes they are de-motivated. These are the three major concerns. BOUTELLIS: Starting with the logistical supplies, what are the shortages? CHANDRAWAT: The major area of shortages is vehicles. We expect them for patrols, for investigations, and for operations. We expect a lot from officers, so we should also supply them vehicles-a good number of vehicles per station. BOUTELLIS: For instance, right now, how many vehicles per station are there approximately? The ratio of vehicles-? CHANDRAWAT: The situation right now is that per station, we are having not more than two or three vehicles. So, it is really bad. There should be between five to eight vehicles per station. BOUTELLIS: And how many officers are there per station? CHANDRAWAT: Per police station, I think we have almost 150 police officers per station. They're working in three shifts, so the police station is working 24/7. We need vehicles all the time. BOUTELLIS: Coming back to the issue of promotion. Now that the KPS-it's a rather new police, but everyone started from the-. CHANDRAWAT: From the level of police officer. BOUTELLIS: So for that reason promotion couldn't happen for everyone? CHANDRAWAT: They have a system of examination for the promotions. BOUTELLIS: What is the current promotion system? How does it work? There is an examination-? CHANDRAWAT: Written examination. BOUTELLIS: Multiple choice, followed by? CHANDRAWAT: Followed by a personal interview and then they promote the ablest officer to the rank of sergeant. After sergeant they promote them to lieutenant and then to captain, major, colonels, and something like that. I think it should be more transparent. It's a good system and there are no complaints, but getting the pulse from the local police officers, from the KP officers, that they passed the examination but they were not promoted-it should be more informative. It should be more transparent. BOUTELLIS: There should be more communications about it? CHANDRAWAT: More communications about the system of promotion. BOUTELLIS: Here, you're working with a lot of Serbian KP officers. Is there any concern from their side in particular, or just-? CHANDRAWAT: The only concern regarding the Serbian officers, the shortage of vehicles and second thing right now is the salary issue. There are some issues relating-because they resigned earlier, so they had their bank accounts closed. Now because they rejoined the police, the KP Services, there have been some salary issues. Some of them have not been getting salaries for more than three to four months. But we are trying to resolve it and maybe within this week or within this month. BOUTELLIS: That was due to-. CHANDRAWAT: To the bank accounts. BOUTELLIS: Now as they're reinstated it is dealt with. CHANDRAWAT: We will resolve this issue; otherwise, the motivation level is quite high among the Serbian officers as well. BOUTELLIS: In terms of the promotion within the Serbian KP. CHANDRAWAT: It is the same. BOUTELLIS: So most KP officers, regardless, are going through the same-? CHANDRAWAT: They are going through the same system. BOUTELLIS: And they're facing the same challenges? CHANDRAWAT: Yes. Surprisingly, when you look at the crime pattern we have seen a lot of instances where Albanian and Serb criminals are working hand-in-hand, especially in the areas of smuggling, auto theft, illegal supply, transportation, and also drugs and narcotics. So, these are the major areas in which the criminals are working together regardless of their ethnicity. BOUTELLIS: And so is the police? CHANDRAWAT: So are the police. BOUTELLIS: In terms of accountability and oversight, what are-has there been transition towards the KP and sort of a lighter role for the international community? How is the existing structure for oversight? How are they functioning? CHANDRAWAT: We have the professional standards unit and the police inspectorate of Kosovo, which are the two major units overseeing, observing and monitoring the behavior and the performance of the KPS officers-if there is any violation of PCM, and if there is any violation of the law. BOUTELLIS: The professional standards unit is internal to the police? CHANDRAWAT: Internal to the police. BOUTELLIS: And PIK, the inspectorate is within the Ministry? So civilians-? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, within the Ministry. But the police officers are represented to investigate the matters in the PIK. BOUTELLIS: We can call it internal oversight and external oversight. They are staffed fully by Kosovars? CHANDRAWAT: Fully with Kosovars. Yes, and they have monitors. BOUTELLIS: Within both? CHANDRAWAT: Within both. BOUTELLIS: In terms of the noncompliance, etc., are there particular concerns? CHANDRAWAT: There are more concerns now because the people are more aware and they have information regarding human rights violations by the police officers. BOUTELLIS: The public is more aware. CHANDRAWAT: Yes, the public is more aware now. BOUTELLIS: They're bringing more cases? CHANDRAWAT: They are bringing more cases. And also, sometimes the bad part about this is that the criminals are also putting pressure on the police officers by promoting false complaints against police officers. After investigations, a substantial portion of the police complaints are found to be baseless, and a tool to put pressure on the police. But we are working on that. BOUTELLIS: Is there any particular concern of politicization of the Kosovo Police Service? CHANDRAWAT: I have not found anything. I think professional behavior by the police officers is good. I don't think that most of them-maybe I can say about 95% of the police officers are working regardless of their political affiliation or political preferences. Professionally, they are very sound. They are not affected by any political development or any particular party being in or out of power. That is very good. BOUTELLIS: Obviously, at the time of the Unilateral Declaration of Independence when a number of Serb ethnic Kosovo police officers refused to show up at work, there were some political influences from the outside. How was this situation dealt with from the UNMIK point of view? CHANDRAWAT: Initially, when they failed to show up for work they were suspended for a time with pay and then without pay. After a substantial period of time, I think the KPS officers from the Serb side realized that being a police officer is [interruption] BOUTELLIS: Second part of the interview with Shantnu Chandrawat. We were just talking about the presence of the Serbian KP officers who had been suspended first with pay and then without pay. How did the process-? CHANDRAWAT: After that they realized that, basically, police officers are there to work because political affiliations don't work. So, they put in a request that they wanted to come back and after it was approved by the police commissioner, they were taken back without any problems. BOUTELLIS: One last category. Are there any concerns about non-state security groups, either private security or groups that could challenge authority? You mentioned the issue of illegal weapons. Are there particular groups or is it just individuals-? CHANDRAWAT: I think most of the weapons that have been recovered that were illegal, or without any permit, were with individuals. There are also large groups working as security but they have permits called the WAC card. These are Weapon Authorization Cards. They give the legal license to provide security to major industrial and banking concerns. Also, merchants, shops and other facilities utilize these private services. BOUTELLIS: So it is controlled? CHANDRAWAT: It is basically controlled. I believe that these security groups have their WAC card. So, the security groups are not a major concern, only the criminals that are working in drug trafficking. They are the main concern because they have illegal weapons in their possession. Because of the war situation in '98 and '99, most of the weapons, which were used in those particular situations, are still out there. So, they are for security reasons but now the weapons are also used for criminal behavior. BOUTELLIS: Now that we've discussed a number of different areas, I'd like to take a step back and look at the Kosovo Police in a more broad way. What are some of the broader challenges that remain, and maybe some of the tasks that you think should be prioritized? CHANDRAWAT: I think the first broad priority of the KPS command strategy should be to have control over drug trafficking and auto theft, which I already mentioned. Also, motivating the KPS officers by having good avenues for promotion as well as good salaries. I also think they should also start providing insurance and implement a pension system for the police officers, so that the safety and security of the family is ensured. The police officers are working very hard under difficult circumstances and they're having cases in which police officers are assaulted-a number of police officers have been injured in their police duties. The family should not feel they are being left alone. I think the pension scheme is also one of the biggest challenges KPS should look into. BOUTELLIS: Now particularly, maybe in the region of Mitrovica, there have been a number-since the Unilateral Declaration of Independence there have been a number of things happening. Over the next few months, what are the major challenges and what are the benchmarks? CHANDRAWAT: I think the major challenges, again, will be drug trafficking, fuel smuggling, and auto theft. These are the three major concerns. Apart from that, there have been some problems in mixed areas north of Mitrovica, just like the water pipes issue in Suvi Do, and also the construction of houses in little Bosnia. Also the courthouse issue in north Mitrovica; establishing a court system in North Mitrovica for all of Mitrovica region is again one of the biggest challenges in Mitrovica over the next few months. BOUTELLIS: Will the security of the court be ensured by KP? CHANDRAWAT: Right now the K-4 is providing the security for courthouses, but the KP officers are ready to take over the security. Security is not the major concern, at all. BOUTELLIS: Are there any innovations or experiments that you know about in terms of things that have been tried with the KP? Any special initiatives that you think merit attention that we could learn from, in particular? Any particular successes? CHANDRAWAT: I think one of the very good innovations by the community police units in the Mitrovica region is to have police officers working in civilian clothes in school establishments. We received a lot of complaints from principals and parents of students that unsocial elements are moving around the school premises and basically having a bad influence on students at the level between 12 to 16, or 18. So, there has been success in terms of arresting the people with illegal weapons and drugs in the schools. That is a good example of innovation. A second thing is there has been a tradition in Kosovo that in marriages and wedding ceremonies, the people used to have happy shootings with weapons. The community police unit has started a program to inform all the people that these happy shootings can be dangerous. A lot of people, especially younger children, have been killed or been injured by these incidents. Apart from giving the information to society, we also have cases in which the police have responded and arrested the people with weapons in these happy-shooting incidents. There has been a decrease in happy-shooting incidents now. These two innovations are really good in terms of social impact on the society. BOUTELLIS: Now, I'd like to turn more to the UN. This is your second mission here in Kosovo. It is a particular mission because it is under an executive mandate but if you could create a wish list, what would be two or three changes in UN internal management or policy that could help you do your job more effectively? CHANDRAWAT: I think the selection of the police officers for the UN should be more particular, or more specific. I see a lot of police officers coming from paramilitary, coming from reserve police battalions, or from reserve police units. Basically, they don't know much about the job of civilian policing, which is working at police stations and working at regional levels for civil society. I think this is one of the main challenges. They should select people from investigation branches. They should select people from civilian police units from all the countries because those police officers can be more useful and they can be more beneficial to give advice and observe the activities of the police officer at the station. BOUTELLIS: So recruit with care and match positions with skills? CHANDRAWAT: Yes, the selection should be according to the skills. BOUTELLIS: Are there some lessons from the way the internationals, in general and particularly, work with host country personnel? What have been the lessons of transitioning, from doing the police work to advising the Kosovo police? CHANDRAWAT: I think the flow of information has been a two-way process. Initially, the international police officers were battle-trained; they were battle-experienced so they used to give information and training to the KP officers. But because of their inner qualities and the amount of skill within themselves, the KP officers have learned quickly and they have adjusted themselves to local circumstances. And now, they can also give good training and good advice to the international officers. To train, monitor and observe, a KP officer requires a lot of skills. The KP officer has all the qualities required for the police officer. So, it is basically a two-way process. Things are going and things are coming, also, from both individuals. I think now, the KP is at such a state that they think that they don't require monitoring and they don't require constant observation by the international police officers. They have their own command structure and I think they're right, up to a level. It is really good that the monitoring and observation is done at the middle level management and the high level management, because at the ground level the KP officers are doing a good job. BOUTELLIS: Now the UN mission is going to draw down and there will be a transition to an EUX mission that will eventually also withdraw, and anyways, will have a lighter monitoring mandate. What do you think the biggest challenges are for the Kosovo police when the UN withdraws completely? CHANDRAWAT: Apart from crime control, I think the biggest challenge for the Kosovo police will be to have impartial, independent police set up for all the minorities within the area. There has been a tendency for the minorities to feel insecure, being surrounded by the majority population of any ethnicity. So, to accommodate their concerns and their security issues, and to still be impartial and effective-that will be one of the biggest challenges for the Kosovo police, if the UN withdraws completely. -so that the presence of independent and impartial police can be recognized by the world over, and also by the UN. Now the Kosovo police officers are experienced and mature enough to have their own independent existence without being monitored, and without being observed and supervised. BOUTELLIS: Are there any other challenges? CHANDRAWAT: I think another challenge is to have a good information flow with Interpol and to have good control over the cross boundary and cross border crime, like auto theft, drugs and weapon smuggling. These will be the biggest crime and criminal challenges for the police officers. BOUTELLIS: Do you have any final comments before we wrap up? CHANDRAWAT: I'm really happy to see the progress and the levels attained by the KP officers over the last seven years, and I wish them Godspeed and good luck. BOUTELLIS: Well Shantnu Chandrawat, thank you very much for your time. CHANDRAWAT: Thank you. Innovations for Successful Societies Series: Policing Oral History Program Interview number: L-1 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ 14 Use of this transcript is governed by ISS Terms of Use, available at www.princeton.edu/successfulsocieties Use of this transcript is governed by ISS Terms of Use, available at www.princeton.edu/successfulsocieties