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Rizal Ramli

Ref Batch
C
Focus Area(s)
Ref Batch Number
7
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Matthew Devlin
Name
Rizal Ramli
Interviewee's Position
Chair
Interviewee's Organization
Indonesia Awakening Committee
Language
English
Nationality of Interviewee
Indonesian
Town/City
Jakarta
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
No
Abstract
Rizal Ramli, former Indonesian minister of finance and head of the State Logistics Agency, recounts in great detail his role in the transition into the post-Suharto era, including major actors and events. He describes some of the corruption as state-run agencies and how his fears about patronage politics and appointees under former President Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) were not borne out. He explains the decentralization process, which involved the transfer of civil servants out from the center to the regions, and some of the resistance and opposition he faced. He speaks about the metrics used to determine which regions got how much state funding.  He explains how his experience with the military helped him overcome opposition to decentralization and reform as well as corruption within the ranks of Bulog. He reflects about changes he initiated at the State Logistics Agency, including changing the accounting system to bring off-budget accounts onto the budget, firing corrupt officials, reducing travel costs substantially, and efforts to stop state officials from importing private rice. He also reflects on his role in restructuring the National Electric Company. Throughout this process, Ramli saw the press as a strategic ally, but he underscores the importance of leading by example. 
Profile

At the time of this interview, Rizal Ramli was the chairman of the Indonesia Awakening Committee and an independent politician. He previously headed Indonesia’s State Logistics Agency. He also served as coordinating minister for economics, finance and security and minister of finance under the administration of President Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur).

Full Audio File Size
131 MB
Full Audio Title
Rizal Ramli - Full Interview

From Underdogs to Watchdogs: How Anti-Corruption Agencies Can Hold Off Potent Adversaries

Author
Gabriel Kuris
Focus Area(s)
Abstract
Leaders of anti-corruption agencies frequently encounter opposition from powerful beneficiaries of existing corruption. Those antagonists often seek to neutralize the agencies by weakening the agencies’ credibility, legal power, or operations. Drawing from ISS interviews and case studies, this cross-cutting report explores responses to this strategic challenge by agencies in eight countries (Botswana, Croatia, GhanaIndonesia, Latvia, LithuaniaMauritius, and Slovenia). The leaders and staff of those agencies worked to overcome opposition by recruiting allies, instituting internal controls to bolster transparency and accountability, pursuing low-visibility preventive efforts, and carefully assessing the pros and cons of high-level investigations. The outcomes of their efforts point to conditions that shape effectiveness and suggest possible workarounds or alternative approaches for anti-corruption agencies in adverse circumstances. 
 
Gabe Kuris authored this paper based on Innovations for Successful Societies case studies of eight anti-corruption agencies. Paper published in 2014. 
 
Associated Interview(s):  Bertrand de Speville