getting the news out/managing expectations

Sri Mulyani Indrawati

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C
Focus Area(s)
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4
Critical Tasks
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Matthew Devlin, Andrew Schalkwyk
Name
Sri Mulyani Indrawati
Interviewee's Position
Minister of Finance
Interviewee's Organization
Indonesia
Language
English
Nationality of Interviewee
Indonesia
Town/City
Jakarta
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
Yes
Abstract

Sri Mulyani Indrawati talks about the sweeping reforms she introduced in the Ministry of Finance in Indonesia.  She talks about how she took over the Ministry of Finance and built a team that was capable of pushing through challenging reforms. She reflects on the crucial support of Indonesia's president, who backed the tough decisions she needed to make in order to make the Ministry of Finance more effective.  She also talks about the complicated relationship between the Ministry of Finance and Parliament, whose members generally supported reform in the abstract but sometimes balked at the steps she felt needed to be taken, such as raising salaries.  She notes that the reforms maintained the support of the president and other high-level officials because she kept a close eye on costs and benefits; in fact, tax revenue increased sharply after the beginning of the reforms.  In some detail, Mulyani describes the steps she took to tackle corruption.  She made it clear that corruption would not be tolerated, and she fired whole departments where corruption occurred, to send the message that she was serious. She was able to contain patronage pressures by securing the president’s backing for decisions that were expected to draw a backlash from powerful people.  She also made the tough decision to go against cultural norms and the strong bureaucratic esprit de corps, removing poorly performing bureaucrats rather than relocating them or waiting for them to retire.  Throughout these changes, she built a strong and productive relationship with the media, encouraging them to hold her accountable and monitor the activities of her ministry.  She ends with reflections on the importance of building coalitions through consultations, and why authority should be exercised only as a last resort.

Case Study:  Instilling Order and Accountability: Standard Operating Procedures at Indonesia's Ministry of Finance, 2006-2007 

Profile

Sri  Mulyani Indrawati received her doctorate in economics from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.  She served as an executive director of the International Monetary Fund, representing 12 economies in Southeast Asia.  She worked for the U.S. Agency for International Development and lectured on the Indonesian economy at the University of Georgia, in the U.S.   At the time of this interview, she was head of Indonesia's Ministry of Finance, where she build a reputation for integrity and was credited with reducing corruption and increasing efficiency.  In August 2008, she was ranked by Forbes Magazine as the 23rd most powerful woman in the world, and the most powerful in Indonesia.

Full Audio File Size
34 MB
Audio Subsections
Size
1.6Mb
Title
Getting The Word Out
Full Audio Title
Sri Mulyani Indrawati - Full Interview

Humberto Falcao Martins

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V
Focus Area(s)
Ref Batch Number
6
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Rushda Majeed
Name
Humberto Falcao Martins
Interviewee's Position
Managing Director
Interviewee's Organization
Instituto Publix
Language
Portuguese
Nationality of Interviewee
Brazil
Town/City
Brasilia
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
No
Abstract

Humberto Falcao Martins offers his perspective on the Brazilian civil service reforms of the 1990s.  He credits Bresser-Pereira for single-handedly putting civil service reform on the agenda.  As a specialist on state an institutional issues in the Secretariat for Strategic Affairs, he was involved in the initial review of the Plano Diretor, or blueprint for reform, produced by Bresser-Pereira.  Martins says he was impressed with the decentralization scheme that would create a strategic core, a second group of activities handled exclusively by the state, a third group that would perform activities through partnerships with NGOs and social organizations, and a fourth group focused on market-oriented service provision by state-owned agencies.  Although he recognized the potential of the proposed initiatives, Martins was concerned with reduction of political interference in the implementation stage.  He identifies economists in the government as one of the main sources of opposition, which translated into generalized resistance to the reform.  Divergent views on managerial reform within the executive branch also contributed to resistance.  Martins further argues that consensus building during the drafting process would have circumvented opposition within the civil service.  Operational and legal obstacles plagued the implementation stage as well, but were somewhat successfully addressed in the social organization initiative in which Martins participated personally.  Specific strategies involved passage of constitutional amendments to restructure the civil service, but they came at the cost of increasing opposition.  Martins emphasizes the role of the reform in bringing about a paradigm shift in public administration rather than in effecting specific change.  In that sense, the ultimate result of the Brazilian managerial reform was to inspire other reformers across the country, with the state of Minas Gerais emerging as a paradigmatic success.  In the end, Martins attributes failure of specific implementation to fragmentation arising from concomitant and somewhat divergent views on state reform that were happening at the same time under President Fernando Henrique Cardoso.

Case Study:  Strengthening Public Administration: Brazil, 1995-1998

Profile

At the time of this interview, Humberto Falcao Martins was the managing director of the Instituto Publix, which focuses on consulting and corporate education in public management.  He served as a specialist on state institutional issues in the Secretariat for Strategic Affairs under President Fernando Henrique Cardoso, and he reviewed initial proposals for national reform.  Inspired by the potential of the Plano Diretor, he joined the Ministry of Administration and State Reform himself as a member of the social organizations team.
 

Full Audio File Size
80 MB
Full Audio Title
Humberto Martins Interview

Luiz Carlos Bresser-Pereira

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V
Focus Area(s)
Ref Batch Number
9
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Rushda Majeed
Name
Luiz Carlos Bresser-Pereira
Interviewee's Position
Minister of Federal Administration and State Reform
Interviewee's Organization
Brazil
Language
English
Nationality of Interviewee
Brazilian
Town/City
São Paulo
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
Yes
Abstract
Luiz Carlos Bresser-Pereira places his own public management reform of the 1990s in the context of past civil service reforms carried out during the presidency of Getúlio Vargas in the 1930s and later on under the military regime in the 1960s.  Upon being appointed as Minister of Federal Administration and Reform, he articulated his ideas in a white paper on reform of the state apparatus (Plano Diretor) influenced by the British experience in managerial reform. To coordinate implementation, Bresser-Pereira built a reform team  by recruiting his former students and the public managers (gestores) trained in the then-neglected competitive public service career. The former minister’s approach to reform focuses on deemphasizing procedure in favor of accountability for outcomes, and on definition of goals to be pursued freely by managers as opposed to close supervision and auditing at each step. He draws a distinction between the strategic core of the state tasked with policy-making, and the state agencies tasked with regulation and execution of specific activities, which would benefit greatly from adoption of a managerial model and greater autonomy. To strengthen the strategic core of the state, Bresser-Pereira reformed the entrance system for careers in public service by holding regular public examinations open to university graduates. To further improve efficiency, he advocated for tenure flexibilization in civil service and for reduction of services provided directly by the state. In his vision, the nonprofit sector (social organizations) would be primarily responsible for a significant portion of service provision under renewable government contracts, as illustrated in the cases of healthcare and higher education. As these controversial measures ignited public opinion, managerial reform was successfully put on the agenda. The main sources of opposition were the lower bureaucracy, professors and university employees, members of the Partido Dos Trabalhadores (PT), administrative lawyers and the judiciary. Bresser-Pereira’s approach to overcoming resistance was to encourage debate in several fora and garner the support of state governments, municipalities, the majority of congress and the media. The former minister highlights two important achievements: winning the hearts and minds of the higher bureaucracy, and successful passage of an amendment that enshrined the principles of the reform in the Constitution. After his tenure, he advocated for increasing the budgetary power of the reform initiative by placing it under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Planning. However, in the face of limited political will of the relevant ministers, the program was effectively lowered to the status of secretary without increasing its operational capabilities. Nonetheless, the principles of the reform have been adopted throughout Brazil at different levels, most notably in the state of Minas Gerais. 

 

Profile

At the time of this interview, Luiz Carlos Bresser-Pereira was serving as president for the Centro de Economía Política (Center for Political Economics) and editor of the Brazilian Journal of Political Economy. After training as a lawyer at the University of São Paulo, Luiz Carlos Bresser-Pereira received his master’s degree in business administration from Michigan State University and joined the faculty of the Getúlio Vargas Foundation. After serving as vice-president of the Pão de Açúcar Group for almost twenty years, he became president of the São Paulo state bank under its first democratically-elected administration, later serving as chief of staff of the governor. Bresser-Pereira served as finance minister of Brazil at the end of the José Sarney administration. During Fernando Henrique Cardoso’s first term, he was minister of federal administration and state reform. Following Cardoso’s reelection, he became minister of science and technology. 

Full Audio File Size
149 MB
Full Audio Title
Bresser-Pereira - Full Interview

Luiz Eduardo Soares

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Focus Area(s)
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1
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Richard Bennet
Name
Luiz Eduardo Soares
Interviewee's Position
National Secretary of Public Security
Interviewee's Organization
Rio de Janeiro
Language
English
Nationality of Interviewee
Brazilian
Place (Building/Street)
Municipal Valuation of Life and Prevention of Violence at Nova Iguacu
Town/City
Rio de Janeiro
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
No
Abstract
In this interview, Dr. Luiz Eduardo Soares discusses police criminality, particularly extrajudicial killings, armed invasions, tortures and disrespect towards the poor, and the ideological and political barriers to police reform in the favelas of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Initially, he describes the process of reforming Brazil’s state institutions during its transition out of a dictatorship. He addresses issues of political polarization and building consensus around reform projects, institutional disorganization, and community policing. Dr. Soares explains the successes of the UPP (Unidade Pacificadora da Policia) program and the GPAE (Grupamento de Policiamento em Areas Especiais) program in establishing secure neighborhoods and rooting out police corruption. In order to scale up the successes of the experimental peace policing initiatives in several of the favelas, Dr. Soares asserts the need for major institutional reform within the police, which would require significant political support. He also stresses the importance of empirical research methods to address social problems. 
 
Profile

At the time of this interview Dr. Luiz Eduardo Soares was the Secretary of Municipal Valuation of Life and Prevention of Nova Iguacu, Rio de Janeiro. He has served in numerous government positions dealing with issues of policing and public safety and in academic positions at various prestigious universities. After completing his Ph.D in Sociology and Political Science and researching and teaching for 15 years at IUPERJ (University Research Institute of Rio de Janeiro), Dr. Soares was appointed to a research position in security policy at ISER (Instituto de Estudos da Religião). In 2003, Dr. Soares became National Secretary of Public Security for Rio de Janeiro. Since occupying this position, he has overseen the implementation of internal police reform programs, such as the UPP and GPAE.

Full Audio File Size
150 MB
Full Audio Title
Dr. Luiz Soares Interview