Burundi

Neela Ghoshal

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Focus Area(s)
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16
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Arthur Boutellis
Name
Neela Ghoshal
Interviewee's Position
Researcher
Interviewee's Organization
Human Rights Watch
Language
English
Town/City
Bujumbura
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
No
Abstract

Neela Ghoshal talks about the challenges facing the Police Nationale du Burundi, including human-rights abuses committed by certain units within the police.  These problems were linked to the integration of military personnel and former rebels into the police as part of a peace process without adequate supplemental training.  Ghoshal lays out the recourses for those with human-rights or other complaints against the police and describes the existing accountability structures within the police.  She talks about attempts at depoliticization, noting that officials tried to include commanders with different backgrounds in the various command structures within the police.  The move was an effort to avoid creating chains of command where all the links come from either the same rebel group or the army.  She also talks about the difficulty of running human-rights training programs and the challenges of monitoring these programs' effects.

Profile

At the time of this interview, Neela Ghoshal was a researcher at Human Rights Watch in Burundi.  She earned a bachelor's degree from the University of Michigan and a master's in international relations from Yale University, both in the U.S.  She previously worked at the Bronx Defenders in New York.  She participated in this interview in her personal capacity and not as a representative of Human Rights Watch.
 

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55 MB
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Neela Ghoshal - Full Interview

Agathe Florence Lele

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Focus Area(s)
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1
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Arthur Boutellis
Name
Agathe Florence Lele
Interviewee's Position
Senior Police Adviser
Interviewee's Organization
United Nations Integrated Mission in Burundi
Language
French
Nationality of Interviewee
Cameroonian
Town/City
Bujumbura
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
No
Abstract
Agathe Lele comments on the originality of the United Nations Integrated Mission in Burundi, where the police unit was part of the SSR/SA unit; in most other peacekeeping missions, the police adviser responds directly to the SRSG/head of mission. One major achievement was the adoption of a new organizational chart for the Burundi National Police in September 2007, with new  commissariats to coordinate different police services at the regional level. She describes some of the mission's other programs of support: equipment and training, uniforms, communication at regional levels, databases for personnel and crimes, sensitization on gender, programs with intelligence service and general inspection.  Some of the greatest challenges, according to Lele, stemmed from a young police force that grew quickly due to the integration process, citing the vetting that would take place under the Truth and Reconciliation Committee.  Lele also addresses some of the issues related to bilateral cooperation.
Profile

Agathe Florence Lele graduated from the Cameroon police academy in 1980, worked for 14 years in the intelligence unit, attended training in France in 2000 and 2005, served as a member of the Interpol executive committee from 2003 to 2006, and became the director of training in Cameroon during 2006-2007. At the time of this interview, she was the senior police adviser with the United Nations Integrated Mission in Burundi, a post that she began in June 2007.

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72 MB
Full Audio Title
Agathe Lele - Full Interview

Elizabeth McClintock

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10
Critical Tasks
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Arthur Boutellis
Name
Elizabeth McClintock
Interviewee's Position
Lead Facilitator
Interviewee's Organization
Burundi Leadership Training Program
Language
English
Town/City
Bujumbura
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
No
Abstract

Elizabeth McClintock describes the history of the Burundi Leadership Training Program, which was launched by U.S. President Bill Clinton’s former envoy to the Great Lakes region, Howard Wolpe.   The program started in 2003 with 100 Burundian leaders chosen by the Burundian people.  The workshops focused on topics such as conflict management, strategic decision making and leadership. The training program initially received funding from the World Bank and the U.S. Agency for International Development, and later from the U.K. Department for International Development, before becoming a Burundian nongovernmental organization. The program functioned as a six-day retreat outside of Bujumbura, followed by workshops. The training focused on communication skills (police de proximite) and situation-based exercises (hostage negotiation, etc.).  McClintock discusses the process by which Burundians came to conduct the training themselves, taking over the roles originally held by the international community. 

 
Profile

At the time of this interview, Elizabeth McClintock was the lead facilitator for the Burundi Leadership Training Program, financed by the U.K. Department for International Development, and a founder and managing partner of CM Partners, a consultancy on negotiation and conflict management.  In addition to this work, she trained and managed a cadre of Burundian conflict-management facilitators in their work with local leaders in Burundi under the auspices of the Community-Based Peace and Reconciliation Initiative, sponsored by U.S. Agency for International Development's Office of Transition Initiatives.  She earned a master's degree in law and diplomacy from the Fletcher School, Tufts University, and a bachelor's degree from Dartmouth College.

Full Audio File Size
61 MB
Full Audio Title
Elizabeth McClintock - Full Interview

Mbaye Faye

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Focus Area(s)
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14
Country of Reform
Interviewers
Arthur Boutellis
Name
Mbaye Faye
Interviewee's Position
Director, Security Sector Reform and Small Arms
Interviewee's Organization
United Nations Integrated Mission in Burundi
Language
French
Nationality of Interviewee
Senegalese
Town/City
Bujumbura
Country
Date of Interview
Reform Profile
No
Abstract
Colonel Mbaye Faye of the United Nations Integrated Mission in Burundi contends that during the peacekeeping phase, it was difficult to initiate reform because the nation had not reconciled itself, and elections were needed to determine the direction security would take. After the 2002 ceasefire, there was a choice possible between the integration and the fusion of forces. The army was 95 percent Tutsi, but Tutsis represented only 10 percent of the overall population. The major challenges facing the police were integration and rank amalgamation. Training was delivered regardless of the educational levels of the police, and moralization of the force was a major issue. Coordination between international actors was weak at first in 2004 but improved in 2006 with sectoral plans in SSR/SA, governance, and human rights/justice. The larger part of the work was left to bilaterals because the bilaterals can be involved in the longer run. The transition from peacekeeping to peacebuilding was difficult for the United Nations. Faye stresses that nationals need to be in the driver’s seat, saying "We are here to help them do the job, not to do the job for them." At the end of the interview, police adviser Alexi Ouedraogo adds some comments about the main priorities of the Burundi National Police and describes some of the existing programs by bilaterals and some of the projects that the U.N. mission was launching.
Profile

At the time of this interview, Colonel Mbaye Faye had served 40 years in the Senegal army and was the director of security sector reform and small arms for the United Nations Integrated Mission in Burundi. He received additional training from the French military officers' academy in St. Cyr.

Full Audio File Size
84 MB
Full Audio Title
Col. Mbaye Faye - Full Interview